tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073400.post5496915259105679563..comments2023-10-28T05:58:07.377-07:00Comments on Anglicans Ablaze: The state of the Anglican Church in North America: Is it time for a reality check?Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073400.post-646161540725329522012-06-12T15:27:14.601-07:002012-06-12T15:27:14.601-07:00Chris,
I would have to disagree with what you cla...Chris,<br /><br />I would have to disagree with what you claim in regards to doctrinal subscription. The ACNA governing documents require unreserved subscription to more than what you state. Unreserved subscription means that clergy must not only accept a doctrine mandated by the ACNA governing documents or by the ACNA ordinal and eventually the ACNA prayer book, they must also teach that doctrine. They cannot teach something else in its place. Otherwise, what is the point of unreserved subscription?<br /><br />Despite its acceptance of women's ordination the ACNA goes further in making room for Anglo-Catholics than it does for conservative evangelicals. A truly comprehensive church would make room for both. The ACNA holds out the welcome mat for Anglo-Catholics but conservative evangelicals must leave their theological convictions at the door. <br /><br />After 3 years the argument that the ACNA is just getting organized is loosing its credibility. It isn't believable anymore. <br /><br />The GAFCON Primates recognize the ACNA as "Anglican," not 80% of the Anglican Communion. What else can the GAFCON Primates do? The ACNA is their baby. But if you apply the standards found in <i>The Way, the Truth, and the Life</i>, <i>The Jerusalem Declaration</i>, and <i>Being Faithful: The Shape of Historic Anglicanism Today</i> to the ACNA, the ACNA comes up short in a number of areas. <br /><br />It may irritate you when I draw attention to this fact. But what is the point of the GAFCON Primates' endorsement of these documents when they themselves do not take them seriously. <br /><br />Despite the urging to put unity before truth a number of the clergy and congregations forming the ACNA left the Anglican Church of Canada and The Episcopal Church USA rather than give up what they understood is the teaching of the Bible. If they had bought into the argument to put unity first, they would not have left. If we apply the same logic to the Reformation, the English Reformers were wrong in breaking with the Church of Rome.<br /><br />I do not buy the argument that the ACNA is the last chance for Anglican unity in North America. What you have in the ACNA is an attempt at man-made unity and despite the hype from Archbishop Duncan not a very good attempt at that. True unity is God-made. It does not require organizational unity.Robin G. Jordanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09511384478845569163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073400.post-82452328559249763272012-06-12T06:21:05.728-07:002012-06-12T06:21:05.728-07:00The only doctrinal commitments that demand unreser...The only doctrinal commitments that demand unreserved subscription are 1) The Scriptures of the Old & New Testaments as the word of God, containing all things necessary for the salvation of men; & 2) The 3 ecumenical creeds. That is the only subscribed doctrine.<br /><br /> There are principles and positions, but they do not have either the force or weight of law. As you describe Evangelical, they may be uncomfortable in the ACNA...but not prohibited. The same is true of many AngloCatholics...they are uncomfortable with the ACNA, but they are not prohibited from believing, preaching, or teaching whearty they believe. (The same is not true of Anglopapalists...a number of them have been shown the door.)<br /><br /> What I saw at the Assembly was a mix of heartening and disheartening things. The ladies in clericals: bad. The excited young people: good. The unformed new clerics (who range from liturgical Baptists to pentecostal Methodists): bad. The spirit of prayer and mutual respect and humility to learn from each other: good.<br /><br />I think that we must be equally satisfied with the order of the theological house as we are with the external houses of religion...they are still getting organized. But the leaders of the AC around the world recognize this as our chance to get together. It is probably our last chance to unite. If we fail now, all that will be left is party spirit. It will be a new Continuum with sects for AngloCatholics, Evangelicals, Charismatics...but no unity.<br /><br />Offer constructive criticism...we need it. But if you wish to be heard, at least give us the courtesy of being recognized as Anglican (which 80%+ of the AC already does).Chris Larimerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01770607122746467750noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073400.post-5692819308466081422012-06-09T09:20:09.864-07:002012-06-09T09:20:09.864-07:00David,
The term "conservative" covers a...David,<br /><br />The term "conservative" covers a lot of territory. A person can be politically conservative, socially conservation, and/or theologically conservative. Because someone is conservative in one area, he may not be conservative in the others. <br /><br />"Conservative" also means different things to different people. Compare a conservative Anglo-Catholic and a conservative evangelical. They have quite a different set of beliefs and practices.<br /><br />Your comment reminds me of a conversation that I had with an woman at a local Continuing Anglican church. She was entertaining becoming a Roman Catholic. "They're conservative like us," she told me. I refrained from pointing to her attention that, while the Roman Catholic Church officially takes a conservative position on a number of issues, its members take a more liberal position on these issues. The Roman Catholic Church also has liberal bishops, priests, nuns, and congregations. The position of the Roman Catholic Church on a number of key doctrinal issues differs from that of the Anglican Church as represented by its formularies. <br /><br />"Being in Christ," like being "conservative," means different things to different people. I know a number of liberals who would argue that they are trying to be in Christ. <br /><br />As for absorbing the different strands, one only has to examine the ACNA governing documents and the ACNA "theological lens" to see that is really not the case. The ACNA does exclude one major strand of Anglicanism beside radical liberalism--traditional Anglican evangelicalism. Conservative evangelicals desiring to affiliate with the ACNA must pay a hefty price: they must sacrifice their theological convictions. They must subscribe unreservedly to the Anglo-Catholic doctrinal positions of the ACNA governing documents.Robin G. Jordanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09511384478845569163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073400.post-15582885617424711562012-06-09T05:46:15.350-07:002012-06-09T05:46:15.350-07:00You may be right....but is this assembly at least ...You may be right....but is this assembly at least trying? They are conservative are they not? They are trying to be in Christ and absorb the different strands.David.McMillanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05796190283678318977noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073400.post-74342148105961718532012-06-09T05:19:34.125-07:002012-06-09T05:19:34.125-07:00Simply put, Bob Duncan and his followers are lying...Simply put, Bob Duncan and his followers are lying to themselves and everybody else. The apple fell precisely where I predicted it would, at the foot of the Episcopal tree.RMBrutonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15017576806723146013noreply@blogger.com