tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073400.post6131094695629039543..comments2023-10-28T05:58:07.377-07:00Comments on Anglicans Ablaze: A Rationale for a Second ACNA ProvinceUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073400.post-13529094499066823852015-06-27T18:40:09.263-07:002015-06-27T18:40:09.263-07:00Dean Justyn Terry himself has acknowledged the shi...Dean Justyn Terry himself has acknowledged the shift of focus in Trinity School of Ministry. The faculty of Trinity now includes professors who are Anglo-Catholic or Convergentist in their theological leanings. They are also ACNA clergy. It is also the home of the Robert Webber center which promotes Convergentist theology. Trinity is hardly a locus of Reformed Evangelicalism in the Anglican Church of North America. If anything it has become the locus of Convergentism, which promotes greater acceptance of unreformed Catholic teaching and practices.<br /><br />You are still dodging my questions. Whether any ACNA judicatory has taken disciplinary actions against a Reformed Evangelical for being a Reformed Evangelical is a red herring, something to draw attention away from the questions that I asked you. In any case I responded to your question in yesterday’s article. <i>“If the opponents of the second province movement take more aggressive steps to suppress the movement, they are going to draw unwanted attention to themselves and their motivations. The similarity between the movement’s opponents and the Episcopal Church’s oppressive leaders will not escape the astute observer.”</i>This has not prevented ACNA bishops from being dishonest in their dealings with Reformed Evangelicals seeking ordination or licensing in the ACNA or to bring their congregation into the ACNA. Such actions pass easily under the radar. Whether or not any ACNA bishops have taken advantage of the provisions, they still exist in the constitution and canons of the denomination. There is nothing to prevent the use of these provisions tomorrow or the next day if fear of drawing unwanted attention to themselves and their motivations ceases to be a deterrent to the use of the provisions.Robin G. Jordanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09511384478845569163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073400.post-74513455810118140272015-06-27T18:38:20.262-07:002015-06-27T18:38:20.262-07:00David,
The ACNA’s affirmation of the Jerusalem De...David,<br /><br />The ACNA’s affirmation of the Jerusalem Declaration is purely cosmetic. It is relegated to the preamble to the ACNA constitution where it is incidental to the account of the ACNA’s formation. The ACNA constitution and canons do not require clerical subscription to the Jerusalem Declaration nor do they prescribe any sanctions against clergy who do not uphold the tenets that it identifies as underpinning Anglican orthodoxy. The doctrinal statements that the ACNA has produced to date show that the ACNA in practice does not affirm the Jerusalem Declaration. <br /><br />The constitution in relation to the Thirty-Nine Articles uses the language of equivocation to avoid committing the ACNA fully to the Protestant and Reformed principles set out in the Articles. The constitution treats the 1662 Book of Prayer as a doctrinal standard, in other words, one standard among many accepted by the ACNA—an observation made by Ephraim Radner in his assessment of the fundamental declarations. The constitution dilutes the 1662 Prayer Book as the ACNA worship standard by including all the books that preceded it in its worship standard, including the pre-Reformation medieval Catholic service books. Nowhere in its constitution and canons does the ACNA require subscription to the Thirty-Nine Articles and the 1662 Book of Common Prayer. Nowhere in these governing documents does it have any provisions like this one in the Anglican Church of Australia’s Constitution: <br /><br /><i>This Church, being derived from the Church of England, retains and approves the doctrine and principles of the Church of England embodied in the Book of Common Prayer together with the Form and Manner of Making Ordaining and Consecrating of Bishops, Priests and Deacons and in the Articles of Religion sometimes called the Thirty-nine Articles but has plenary authority at its own discretion to make statements as to the faith ritual ceremonial or discipline of this Church and to order its forms of worship and rules of discipline and to alter or revise such statements, forms and rules, provided that all such statements, forms, rules or alteration or revision thereof are consistent with the Fundamental Declarations contained herein and are made as prescribed by this Constitution. Provided, and it is hereby further declared, that the above-named Book of Common Prayer, together with the Thirty-nine Articles, be regarded as the authorised standard of worship and doctrine in this Church, and no alteration in or permitted variations from the services or Articles therein contained shall contravene any principle of doctrine or worship laid down in such standard.</i><br /><br />Or this provision in the Constitution of the Church of Uganda”<br /><br /><i>It maintains this faith as embodied in the Doctrine. Sacraments and Discipline of the Church as they have been received by the Church of England and set forth in the Book of Common Prayer and the Ordinal and in the Articles of Religion commonly called the 39 Articles. It accepts the principles o f worship set forth in the Book of Common Prayer and disclaims any right to depart from the standards of Faith and order or the principles of Worship set forth in the said formularies of the Church of England. </i>[Continued]Robin G. Jordanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09511384478845569163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073400.post-38088477122211885032015-06-26T21:10:42.569-07:002015-06-26T21:10:42.569-07:00Honestly, it's a long, painful story and I don...Honestly, it's a long, painful story and I don't want to get into it publicly. I will say that I very much dispute the way it has been described by the one who has blackballed me. In short, it bears all of the hallmarks Robin describes. Unreformed Catholic practices, prayers to Mary and for the dead, abuse of authority, promises left unfulfilled, etc. The results were catastrophic in the lives of several members of the plant's core group, and in others were merely painful or traumatic. If you want the whole story I would be happy to tell it privately. <br /><br />Pax<br /><br />-AAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04930744230443869057noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073400.post-65595630424192439692015-06-26T19:56:34.431-07:002015-06-26T19:56:34.431-07:001. Robin: The ACNA subscribes to the Jerusalem Dec...1. Robin: The ACNA subscribes to the Jerusalem Declaration of GAFCON 08, lists both the 39 Articles and the 1662 prayerbook as official doctrinal standards of the ACNA. I am alum of TSM and a current DMin student, the Dean, the dean of the DMin Program and the mission prof are all either ACNA priests or licensed by the ACNA and reformed protestant theologians. You haven't cited any clergy being actually disciplined for holding reformed doctrine within the ACNA. <br /><br />2. Austin Olive: What jurisdiction and which bishop expelled your parish. The Rev Canon Dr David Wilsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09878281384587956210noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073400.post-3301326845260967042015-06-26T16:09:56.264-07:002015-06-26T16:09:56.264-07:00I am aware of a number of instances where ACNA bis...I am aware of a number of instances where ACNA bishops have discriminated against individuals due to their commitment to Reformed theology or resorted to underhanded tactics in their dealings with such individuals. I fully expect more such cases to come light over the passage of time. <br /><br />At least one former Trinity School for Ministry student has told me that he counted himself lucky to have graduated from that seminary with his Reformed convictions intact, a sad commentary on how far Trinity has departed from its Evangelical beginnings.<br /><br />In my contacts with Evangelicals in and outside the Anglican Church in North America, in and outside the United States, they have expressed concern about developments in the ACNA. Among these concerns is the failure of the ACNA to extend official standing to the beliefs and values of confessional Anglicans. At least one Evangelical leader has referred to these problem areas in an article that he wrote for the Internet.Robin G. Jordanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09511384478845569163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073400.post-88415915755233266422015-06-26T14:51:31.989-07:002015-06-26T14:51:31.989-07:00It was my parish. I was there. It was my parish. I was there. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04930744230443869057noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073400.post-13716115632236772332015-06-26T14:50:43.880-07:002015-06-26T14:50:43.880-07:00David,
St Luke's Anglican Church, Tucson, AZ....David,<br /><br />St Luke's Anglican Church, Tucson, AZ. The clergy were the Rev'd Dr Reynolds Stone & the Rev'd Olive. Fr Stone was forcibly retired without prior notice, and Rev'd Olive was informed that he had renounced his orders. <br /><br />There's one. <br /><br />-AAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04930744230443869057noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073400.post-88287639924894170312015-06-26T14:03:59.794-07:002015-06-26T14:03:59.794-07:00David, you did not answer my questions but dodged ...David, you did not answer my questions but dodged them.Robin G. Jordanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09511384478845569163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073400.post-5164056768276838892015-06-26T13:58:16.806-07:002015-06-26T13:58:16.806-07:00Robin
Please cite for me one clergyman who has be...Robin<br /><br />Please cite for me one clergyman who has been disciplined for holding to Reformed doctrine or one congregation that has expelled for holding to <br />reformed doctrine.The Rev Canon Dr David Wilsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09878281384587956210noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073400.post-46045436391129332202015-06-26T13:49:59.108-07:002015-06-26T13:49:59.108-07:00How, David, do you explain that the Anglican Churc...How, David, do you explain that the Anglican Church in North America has made no discernible effort to comprehend in its official doctrinal statements Anglicans who are Evangelical and low-church in tradition and committed to the Protestant and Reformed doctrine and principles of the Anglican formularies? These doctrinal statements evidence decided unreformed Catholic leanings and contain positions on key issues that are objectionable to confessional Anglicans. How is that making room for "any orthodox Anglican of whatever stripe"? The ACNA grants official standing to the beliefs and values of the Anglo-Catholic - philo-Orthodox wing but not to those of any other group represented in the ACNA. Under the provisions of its canons clergy who do <i>not</i> hold these views are subject to disciplinary proceedings and groupings of congregations to expulsion.Robin G. Jordanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09511384478845569163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073400.post-15095683889785554032015-06-26T09:52:27.882-07:002015-06-26T09:52:27.882-07:00FWIW, I am a low church protestant Anglican minist...FWIW, I am a low church protestant Anglican minister and pastor an Evangelical parish in the Diocese of Pittsburgh. My bishop is +Bob Duncan. In my experience of over 30 years in this Diocese and in the ACNA, I have never had anyone impose any doctrinal limitations on what I believe, teach, preach, teach, or advocate. There has always been room in both the Diocese of Pittsburgh and in the ACNA for any orthodox Anglican of whatever stripe. There are plenty of low church protestant Anglicans among the clergy, lay people and bishops of the ACNA who do not experience the marginalization that Anglican Ablaze has been promulgating since 2009. Christian leadership guru John Maxwell once said, "If you're leading and no one is following, you're just taking a walk". Brother Robin, I think you're just taking a walk.The Rev Canon Dr David Wilsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09878281384587956210noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073400.post-89767335697434855572015-06-25T21:31:48.265-07:002015-06-25T21:31:48.265-07:00What I am proposing is that those who are Evangeli...What I am proposing is that those who are Evangelical and low-church in tradition and committed to the Protestant and Reformed doctrine and principles of the Anglican formularies and who are already a part of the Anglican Church in North America form a second province within the ACNA on their own initiative. I am not proposing that they seek permission from “the powers that be” but they simply go ahead and do it. <br /><br />What can the “powers that be” do—revoke the clergy’s licenses, inhibit them, depose them, expel congregations, expel networks of congregations. How are they going to explain these actions? It’s one thing to deny official standing to the beliefs and values of the Evangelical - low-church wing of the ACNA and discriminate against them in other ways but it is entirely another thing to take these kind of steps. <br /><br />For what are “the powers that be” going to prosecute them—for being faithful to the Holy Scriptures and loyal to the Anglican formularies? How is that going to look—persecuting their fellow Anglicans for wanting official standing for what the English Reformers and generation of Anglicans after them have believed and valued? <br /><br />If they do take these kind of steps, they are going to start bearing a strong resemblance to the leaders of the Episcopal Church. They will find themselves tangled in a public relations nightmare. <br /><br />Any illusions that members of the Evangelical – low church wing of the ACNA have about the fear of losing congregations and clergy holding the Anglo-Catholic – philo-Orthodox wing of the ACNA in check will evaporate. Rather than discouraging the formation of a second province, such actions might provide the catalyst needed to accelerate the process of its formation. <br /><br />If the “powers that be” have any sense they will step back and let it happen and then take credit for the idea afterwards. <br /><br />The “powers that be” have also sat loose to the constitution and canons of the Anglican Church in North America, ignoring the provisions of these governing documents when it suits them. They themselves have set a precedent. They are in no position to object if other people do what they have done. <br /><br />As I pointed out in an earlier article, they have broken faith with those who are Evangelical and low-church in tradition and committed to the Protestant and Reformed doctrine and principles of the Anglican formularies and who are a part of the ACNA. The Evangelical – low church wing of the ACNA is under no moral obligation or constraint to follow their leadership. <br /><br />How will the Global Fellowship of Confessing Anglicans look if they side with the “powers that be” in the Anglican Church in North America against a group of Anglicans who, unlike “the powers that be,” share what they claim to believe and value? All the statements that the GFCA has made will be empty words.Robin G. Jordanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09511384478845569163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9073400.post-57932266988616532392015-06-25T18:19:35.860-07:002015-06-25T18:19:35.860-07:00Robin,
A question has been running around in my ...Robin, <br /><br />A question has been running around in my mind as I think about the idea of a second, Reformed, province or synod. My thought is that while such a is a great idea, how can it happen? If the Anglo-Catholics are the gatekeepers, how would evangelical, Reformed/Protestant folk get in gate? They have recognition and the establishment. How then could this second province come to pass?<br /><br />Wouldn't evangelicals have to first establish a structure and quasi-denomination? After all, as I have found through bitter experience, the Anglo-Catholics will force out or refuse to admit Reformed/Evangelical ministers, especially those seeking to transfer in from the outside. <br /><br />What are your thoughts?<br /><br />Pax, <br /><br />-A.<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04930744230443869057noreply@blogger.com